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Consumers want MPG, but not at hybrid price

THE (NORFOLK) VIRGINIAN-PILOT / PGH TRIB LIVE -- Last week, the world's automakers put on displays of fuel efficiency during the public policy days of the Washington Auto Show as bureaucrats of every description toured the show, huffing, puffing and pontificating over public policy as it applies to automobiles.

The show has become a magnet for automakers since the EPA raised the corporate average fuel economy. The new mandate, a lofty 54.5 mpg for the 2025 model year, sounds like a good idea.

But what happens when buyers hit the showroom is a different story altogether. There's a reason for this, something politicians don't understand.

"You can make all of the public policies you want. People don't care," said Rebecca Lindland, director of research at IHS Automotive. "They make decisions based on what's going on inside their own home.

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Submitted Feb 04, 2012 By: Sparky19038

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fuel2use Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,811 Points:410,125 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 7:52:53 AM Ignore fuel2use Report Abuse True.
OmeGas Rookie Author Twin Cities Posts:48 Points:592,635 Joined:Jul 2010	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 6:45:16 AM Ignore OmeGas Report Abuse MPG vs cost - simple
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:44,860 Points:1,810,750 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 3:40:38 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse I will admit I can name three people who bought a hybrid. One was a female geek I used to work with. The second is a Washington (DC) journalist that I went to school with. I was the third. I'm not sure I'll miss my hybrid, I can make the mother of all trips to the Apple Store with the price delta between a hybrid and a conventional four (all I could get to replace the hybrid). I was thinking I might have needed a loan to get a new vehicle but State Farm only took $600 for depreciation. [Edited by: Sneakers55 at 2/6/2012 5:42:25 AM EST]
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:44,860 Points:1,810,750 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 12:39:10 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse On Feb 5, 2012 10:56:42 PM, joekayak wrote: >Attention all car makers take heed of the articles title. I don't know what the premium for an EcoBoost is over the conventional engine in the same vehicle (the vehicle isn't available yet), but it's said on the 2013 Escape that the 1.6 liter EcoBoost engine will get hybrid-like mileage. Ford must be convinced, the 2013 Escape will not be available in a hybrid version.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:44,860 Points:1,810,750 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 6, 2012 12:32:46 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse On Feb 5, 2012 3:53:19 PM, Charley_7 wrote: >Not geting a hybrid until the durability of the batteries >for the hybrids are clear... Hybrids have been around for more than a decade. Battery durability should not be a question any more. It's pretty darn good, particularly if you buy a California-spec Prius. (IIRC, New York follows the California-spec emission regulations.)
joekayak All-Star Author Massachusetts Posts:756 Points:407,640 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 9:56:42 PM Ignore joekayak Report Abuse Attention all car makers take heed of the articles title.
kkimes All-Star Author Illinois Posts:847 Points:1,183,445 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 9:54:28 PM Ignore kkimes Report Abuse "When my husband and I shopped for the Camry; I wanted a hybrid. When we number crunched; it was cost prohibitive. It would take 7 years to to make up the difference; so we bought the regular Camry." My wife and I are going through the same process right now. Since we keep a car 10 to 12 years, I'm not worried about breaking even. But the unknown is what unexpected expenses might crop up with a hybrid that isn't there for a gas model. That, and the fact that right now, Toyota won't sell a Camry hybrid unless it is fully loaded. I really, really don't need a moon roof.
Charley_7 Veteran Author New York Posts:291 Points:138,615 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 2:53:19 PM Ignore Charley_7 Report Abuse Number crunching... Number crunching... Not geting a hybrid until the durability of the batteries for the hybrids are clear...
Double_Golden All-Star Author San Francisco Posts:735 Points:242,830 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:22:19 PM Ignore Double_Golden Report Abuse yeah, that's right... MPG MPG
blupupher Champion Author Houston Posts:1,693 Points:419,140 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:06:09 PM Ignore blupupher Report Abuse Yea, Hybrids just cost too much.
paulp24 Champion Author Harrisburg Posts:2,873 Points:468,750 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 8:39:13 AM Ignore paulp24 Report Abuse Ok
ClarkSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:1,254 Points:649,035 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 6:46:22 AM Ignore ClarkSC Report Abuse Agreed.
NGC4565 Champion Author Reading Posts:1,934 Points:387,865 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 6:22:27 AM Ignore NGC4565 Report Abuse Proof once again that the free market and not the government will ultimately decide what is found on American roads in 2025. What's that saying about leading a horse to water?
edgarCA Champion Author Oakland Posts:1,536 Points:232,670 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Feb 5, 2012 12:16:58 AM Ignore edgarCA Report Abuse Great.
igbo Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,119 Points:896,535 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:04:37 PM Ignore igbo Report Abuse Not a particularly well written article. It offers few insights. Obviously, a person who typically buys a truck or SUV, is not going to suddenly buy a compact car. The article also points out that price is a factor in a buyer's purchasing decision. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to know that. What the article doesn't look into are other factors influence a purchasing decision. For example, if a person has a practical need to buy a truck, because they need to haul equipment, they are going to buy a truck. On the other hand, there are people who don't need a truck, but buy one because they think it's cool. It's the latter group that the article writer and the automakers need to explore. How do we get them to buy more fuel efficient vehicles? Another is what can be done to lower the cost of more fuel efficient vehicles. Also, the article doesn't look at the reasons people buy hybrids. It's not just because the vehicles are more fuel efficient.
joekayak All-Star Author Massachusetts Posts:756 Points:407,640 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 9:42:48 PM Ignore joekayak Report Abuse Its too bad that car makers don't get it.
livable1 Champion Author New York Posts:2,323 Points:283,265 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 9:19:45 PM Ignore livable1 Report Abuse How about that
PathfinderSC Champion Author South Carolina Posts:7,702 Points:1,470,790 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 8:36:34 PM Ignore PathfinderSC Report Abuse Hybrid is not for me .
wamster Champion Author Houston Posts:1,727 Points:364,040 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 8:20:08 PM Ignore wamster Report Abuse When my husband and I shopped for the Camry; I wanted a hybrid. When we number crunched; it was cost prohibitive. It would take 7 years to to make up the difference; so we bought the regular Camry.
bullman68 All-Star Author St. Louis Posts:596 Points:297,300 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 7:53:11 PM Ignore bullman68 Report Abuse People make decisions using facts and common sense, unlike our government, if the numbers don't add up, you move on to the best option.
Nicoalbum Champion Author Ottawa Posts:4,106 Points:827,775 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 7:42:52 PM Ignore Nicoalbum Report Abuse I want a hybrid at a regualr car price. Why not?
scu227 Champion Author New Haven Posts:2,210 Points:419,700 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 7:33:24 PM Ignore scu227 Report Abuse I am not against hybrids, but the higher cost does not justify.
Cashless Champion Author Akron Posts:1,685 Points:372,365 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 7:22:32 PM Ignore Cashless Report Abuse I agree.
BobBG Veteran Author Albany Posts:447 Points:579,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 6:26:49 PM Ignore BobBG Report Abuse I bought a Hyundai Elantra instead of a Prius because it was more affordable but still gets great mpg.
Pete12 Champion Author Albany Posts:3,959 Points:1,335,320 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 6:17:16 PM Ignore Pete12 Report Abuse People buy what they can afford.
Bussman Champion Author Dallas Posts:4,133 Points:1,067,535 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 6:08:57 PM Ignore Bussman Report Abuse Agreed mloe.
mloe Rookie Author Maryland Posts:6 Points:462,845 Joined:Jan 2009	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 5:38:33 PM Ignore mloe Report Abuse Why would I buy a car that cost almost twice as much as a comparable conventional car to save gas mileage if it will never pay for itself? Hybrids of today cannot survive with our government assistance. That means they are not economically feasible at current gas prices. This is why Obama stated in his last presidential campaign that high energy costs where a good thing. ... and right he was. Only if the cost of gas is high enough, the manufacturers will be forced to sell economy cars at reasonable prices - just to stay competitive. Look to Germany: They pay an extra that tops $2 in taxes per gallon. Volkswagen sells cars there that get 60 mpg, which it doesn't even bother to sell in this country. If you are a manufacturer in Germany that cannot sell cars that get at least 50 mpg, you're dead.
Jeff4U Champion Author Atlanta Posts:6,561 Points:1,490,520 Joined:Nov 2004	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 5:17:53 PM Ignore Jeff4U Report Abuse Okay Mr. KnowItAll, I stand corrected - however the VOLT and many others DO require charging and the cost of the electricity used is always ignored in comparative calculations.
alterman156 Champion Author New York Posts:5,615 Points:1,195,700 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 4:56:01 PM Ignore alterman156 Report Abuse The automakers should be able to produce cars that get good gas mileage and keep the cars affordable.
Meowmy All-Star Author Florida Posts:993 Points:277,510 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 4:32:22 PM Ignore Meowmy Report Abuse The car companies can do it, but they want their precious profits.
badbonita Champion Author Syracuse Posts:4,369 Points:991,580 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 4:25:53 PM Ignore badbonita Report Abuse Perhaps if more environmentalists were also working for the auto manufacturers in the development division or in the EPA, they'd see how unreasonable their expectations are. Or maybe they'd actually find the way to create the mechanism that can increase fuel economy.
schatzila Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:3,242 Points:679,090 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 4:13:25 PM Ignore schatzila Report Abuse I agree. Looking for a reasonable hybrid.
esq262 Champion Author Asheville Posts:1,186 Points:297,365 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 4:01:42 PM Ignore esq262 Report Abuse Technology still need to catch up to lower cost
johnnyg1200 Champion Author St. Louis Posts:1,488 Points:303,285 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 3:21:01 PM Ignore johnnyg1200 Report Abuse Why would I buy a car that cost almost twice as much as a comparable conventional car to save gas mileage if it will never pay for itself? Hybrids of today cannot survive with our government assistance. That means they are not economically feasible at current gas prices. This is why Obama stated in his last presidential campaign that high energy costs where a good thing.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:17,316 Points:2,009,320 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 2:28:10 PM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse buy a focus or corolla you wont be sorry.
bandannaman Champion Author New Jersey Posts:1,139 Points:222,695 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 2:21:13 PM Ignore bandannaman Report Abuse ditto fughh...
Rockyguitar All-Star Author Tampa Posts:846 Points:873,470 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 1:09:48 PM Ignore Rockyguitar Report Abuse 3 or 4 posts down, "fuggh....." says it all. Dittos!
md11capt Champion Author Denver Posts:1,789 Points:386,535 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 1:05:03 PM Ignore md11capt Report Abuse The price of one of those things buys a lot of gas for my Dodge Durango & Dakota 4 x 4's that are paid for.
NoSoup4U Champion Author Raleigh Posts:1,548 Points:757,295 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 12:49:19 PM Ignore NoSoup4U Report Abuse If you want a hybrid buy it now, before gas hits $5 a gallon this summer. Then they'll be in such high demand, pricing will be even worse than now.
Fuggheddabowdit Veteran Author Phoenix Posts:304 Points:47,620 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 12:37:27 PM Ignore Fuggheddabowdit Report Abuse LESS Smoke And Mirrors . . . LESS Government . . . LESS Spending . . . LESS Fear-Mongering . . . MORE Jobs . . .
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:44,860 Points:1,810,750 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 12:30:50 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse On Feb 4, 2012 11:20:26 AM, VDubBill wrote: >And for the gassers, and the suit against Honda, we've >seen that even the sticker MPG and the real-world MPG >is not the same. The solution is simple, just put a sticker >on each car that says something like, "the House and the >Senate will guarantee you'll be pleased with this hybrid's >savings," or "the Congress guarantees your great gas >mileage on this car." Cars should be licensed under a Microsoft EULA. That said, if they come with SYNC, that part of the vehicle IS licensed under a Microsoft EULA (with extensions to cover the portions of SYNC developed by the Ford Motor Company).
TripleHs Champion Author Austin Posts:1,837 Points:597,005 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 12:22:58 PM Ignore TripleHs Report Abuse the price got to be reasonable
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:44,860 Points:1,810,750 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 12:19:55 PM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse On Feb 4, 2012 11:27:48 AM, Jeff4U wrote: >If you look over the calculations, take note that they didn't bother mentioning >the daily cost of charging the Prius. The daily cost of charging the Prius is $0.00 because you don't charge a Prius from a wall outlet; the batteries are charged by the engine and during light to moderate braking. You will have to charge the plug-in version of the Prius but it's not yet available (first US sales to come during 2Q 2012). It's not going to cost much to charge as they have already said it will have a 4.4 kWh battery pack.
Sneakers55 Champion Author Houston Posts:44,860 Points:1,810,750 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:55:52 AM Ignore Sneakers55 Report Abuse On Feb 4, 2012 12:14:36 PM, vtroger wrote: >With every other techlogy, they are constantly improving at >very fast rates. Don't extrapolate from consumer electronics to "every other technology." The great majority of products change at glacial rates. Imagine if you felt compelled to buy a new Apple iFridge every eighteen months. >But an extra mpg or two in several years...really? Who runs the >automotive industry? Oil companies. Billy Ford would be surprised to discover he doesn't run the Ford Motor Company. And as to Government Motors, everyone on here assumes it is run by Barack O'Bummer, our Irish President.
GasFreeLeaf All-Star Author Orange County Posts:943 Points:350,705 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:34:52 AM Ignore GasFreeLeaf Report Abuse Really
Donatelo All-Star Author Dayton Posts:657 Points:145,915 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:28:03 AM Ignore Donatelo Report Abuse Anything new is expensive at first, we have to start some where, change does not come overnite.
tnfran Champion Author Arizona Posts:2,556 Points:494,790 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:26:32 AM Ignore tnfran Report Abuse "You can make all of the public policies you want. People don't care," said Rebecca Lindland, director of research at IHS Automotive. "They make decisions based on what's going on inside their own home. SO.......much truth to that.
vtroger Veteran Author Vermont Posts:282 Points:290,905 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 11:14:36 AM Ignore vtroger Report Abuse With every other techlogy, they are constantly improving at very fast rates. But an extra mpg or two in several years...really? Who runs the automotive industry? Oil companies.
RNCII Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,789 Points:332,120 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:55:02 AM Ignore RNCII Report Abuse Selective math.
ziyulu Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:6,658 Points:1,265,575 Joined:Aug 2007	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 10:52:08 AM Ignore ziyulu Report Abuse You can't have your cake and eat it too.