Ethanol from food? Forget it. From wood waste, maybe

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Sunday, September 07, 2008 8:36:51 PM

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Ethanol from food? Forget it. From wood waste, maybe Friday, July 04, 2008
The Vancouver Sun -- The headlong rush by Ottawa and most provinces to support grain-based ethanol as a renewable fuel for cars and trucks is a waste of money, says a new C.D. Howe study released Thursday. When you allow for the energy it takes to make grain-based ethanol and its inefficiency compared to gasoline, the science is inconclusive as to whether it really reduces greenhouse gas emissions, the study says. And even if it can be shown to reduce the total amount of CO2 spewed into the atmosphere, the cost per tonne is as much as seven times higher than other GHG-reducing strategies.
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JT Moderator	Message Posted: 7/4/2008 8:22:30 AM	Ignore JT Report Abuse
	Friday, July 04, 2008 The Vancouver Sun -- The headlong rush by Ottawa and most provinces to support grain-based ethanol as a renewable fuel for cars and trucks is a waste of money, says a new C.D. Howe study released Thursday. When you allow for the energy it takes to make grain-based ethanol and its inefficiency compared to gasoline, the science is inconclusive as to whether it really reduces greenhouse gas emissions, the study says. And even if it can be shown to reduce the total amount of CO2 spewed into the atmosphere, the cost per tonne is as much as seven times higher than other GHG-reducing strategies. Visit The Vancouver Sun for full article

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djgunrunner Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:1,190 Points:675,225 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 7/6/2008 10:49:43 AM	Ignore djgunrunner Report Abuse
	The only thing you have to do with ethanol is look at the facts. At this time it take food from us and raises the prices on meat, poultry and dairy. It gets about 15 to 20 percent less mileage. The pollution is still there. If the government is going to recommend something why not hydrogen. The government could also subsidize Hydrogen like it did ethanol or was there something under the table?
POLELANE Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,630 Points:165,050 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/6/2008 10:45:02 AM	Ignore POLELANE Report Abuse
	freedom fries and corn e
Gee_NY Sophomore Author Texas Posts:133 Points:202,930 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: 7/6/2008 7:27:06 AM	Ignore Gee_NY Report Abuse
	Making ethanol from corn makes plenty of sense; they should also use the corn to produce vegetable/corn oil, to be used in diesel engines, and base stock for bio-diesel. Prices could be stabilized by limiting exports using an export tax, and we need to reconsidered farm subsidies. Funds from export taxes could be used to research other alternative fuels, as an offset subsidy for anyone purchasing a hybrid/alternative fuel type vehicles, infrastructure (solar/wind powered charging stations) for electric vehicles etc.
blazerbob91 All-Star Author Milwaukee Posts:846 Points:335,605 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 5:59:14 PM	Ignore blazerbob91 Report Abuse
	Farmers love it but the rest of us hate it.
guarddog Rookie Author Illinois Posts:52 Points:867,080 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:28:03 AM	Ignore guarddog Report Abuse
	ethanol can be made from plants like switch grass. it will grow anywhere. i guess thats too simple.
mrkel Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:1,420 Points:741,105 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:28:00 AM	Ignore mrkel Report Abuse
	Making Ethanol from corn makes very little sense and has helped to push corn prices up. Great for farmers who grow corn but bad for the rest of us including cattle farmers.
jep39 Veteran Author California Posts:290 Points:225,440 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:24:34 AM	Ignore jep39 Report Abuse
	ryakin: "Soilent Green" was an old movie, but you may be right. If we used people as a source of raw material to produce fuel, we would have an unlimited supply.
CrazyQ Champion Author Washington Posts:11,967 Points:1,387,500 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:13:43 AM	Ignore CrazyQ Report Abuse
	Some scientists believe that algae and plankton are the actual source of petroleum and are, even as we speak, creating more oil in the ocean depths.
EarlyMoose Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,561 Points:634,465 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:12:35 AM	Ignore EarlyMoose Report Abuse
	Ethanol from waste beer. Coors does that and is making E85 out of it. I'm sure other industries could do it too.
Wolfwings All-Star Author Delaware Posts:607 Points:210,100 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:03:06 AM	Ignore Wolfwings Report Abuse
	Why use viable food when algae works much better, is available in large quantities, and works just as good. While we are at it, how about methanol from garbage dumps, and solar power.
siouxbear Champion Author Ontario Posts:6,135 Points:478,435 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:02:24 AM	Ignore siouxbear Report Abuse
	I aviod ethanol when I can but most stations in my area have 10 %
Masercal Champion Author Michigan Posts:1,131 Points:269,635 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 9:00:42 AM	Ignore Masercal Report Abuse
	Ethanol has been the biggest waste this government has pushed. Tapping our food sources is no way to make fuel.
Greatace Veteran Author Tampa Posts:341 Points:280,675 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:58:00 AM	Ignore Greatace Report Abuse
	Cone on!!! People have already proved you can get the stuff from other product like tree bark and grass weed etc... So lets use it and leave the corn alone.
rustyOR Veteran Author Oregon Posts:484 Points:106,700 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:57:45 AM	Ignore rustyOR Report Abuse
	I agree.
357revo Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:6,186 Points:698,515 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:53:29 AM	Ignore 357revo Report Abuse
	The entire ethanol craze is based on the premise that the release of so-called greenhouse gases is affecting our climate. Yet the climate is not getting warmer [despite the hype of Al Gore, the Weather Channel, and a bunch of U.N. politicians writing summaries based on faulty models], and we are more in danger of global cooling than warming. Meanwhile, using corn-based ethanol as a substitute for gasoline is wasting other resources, which damages our overall economy.
nd73 Veteran Author Grand Rapids Posts:338 Points:214,945 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:48:57 AM	Ignore nd73 Report Abuse
	There are new studies everyday - and many of them have conflicting conclusions. That's why you don't elect a scientist to govern a country!!
n3his Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,543 Points:840,135 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:44:24 AM	Ignore n3his Report Abuse
	Do it and find out.
oncotime Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:8,916 Points:1,582,620 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:43:36 AM	Ignore oncotime Report Abuse
	not corn
acrider54 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:10,381 Points:1,813,705 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:43:27 AM	Ignore acrider54 Report Abuse
	ryakin, maybe you don't read the news, but in BC we have nothing but beetle killed pine trees in the province, might as well use them for something besides sending our raw logs to the States.
Somis1 Champion Author Ventura Posts:4,486 Points:994,525 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:42:55 AM	Ignore Somis1 Report Abuse
	How can ethanol be the answer when it takes more energy to make it than it contains?
Dinogam Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,982 Points:648,250 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:42:44 AM	Ignore Dinogam Report Abuse
	There is plenty of wood waste to derive it from
Cuzilla Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:5,651 Points:938,370 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:42:29 AM	Ignore Cuzilla Report Abuse
	Cellulosic-alcohal may be the answer but definitely NOT corn-based ethanol!
dopster Veteran Author Toledo Posts:460 Points:823,830 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:41:02 AM	Ignore dopster Report Abuse
	Ethanol doesn't have to, and shouldn't, come from our food supply. Just look at the weather related crop disasters in the Midwest to know how fragile our food supply is.
ryakin Rookie Author Delaware Posts:7 Points:1,240 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:39:10 AM	Ignore ryakin Report Abuse
	yay, lets creat a shortage of something else, as if the wheat problems steming from to much corn being grown for ethanol wasn't enough. Whats the next Soilent Gas,...... oh my god it's people
RWPTraveller All-Star Author Virginia Posts:566 Points:310,125 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:29:35 AM	Ignore RWPTraveller Report Abuse
	That's right...add to the pain of rising gas costs with rising food prices...
waltjax All-Star Author Illinois Posts:590 Points:817,760 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:27:01 AM	Ignore waltjax Report Abuse
	Would that wood would make a good fuel. Would it?
deanjk Veteran Author Arkansas Posts:286 Points:82,935 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:24:04 AM	Ignore deanjk Report Abuse
	do it.
leolisa Champion Author New York Posts:3,925 Points:715,180 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:20:57 AM	Ignore leolisa Report Abuse
	all this talk about ethanol gives me a headache
laddyboy62 Champion Author Riverside Posts:1,210 Points:921,185 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:18:23 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	drilling is the answer...not all this crazy stuff
fratt Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,278 Points:951,475 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:07:15 AM	Ignore fratt Report Abuse
	It's worth a try.
courier400 Champion Author Kansas Posts:6,464 Points:1,521,110 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:04:33 AM	Ignore courier400 Report Abuse
	we waste a lot of food.
cableman31 Veteran Author New York Posts:401 Points:356,765 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:04:06 AM	Ignore cableman31 Report Abuse
	Again, Politicians shooting their mouths off and don't know what the hell thy are talking about. Most of the just like to hear themselves talk.
ladyjj All-Star Author Tennessee Posts:807 Points:87,665 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:03:57 AM	Ignore ladyjj Report Abuse
	Things should have been done years ago to help stop the greenhouse gases. I just think they are trying to trade off one thing for another. Kind of like jumping out of the frying pan into the fire kind of thing.
lethal3pilot Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:1,151 Points:319,100 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:03:47 AM	Ignore lethal3pilot Report Abuse
	Old news, is right.
weenerdog Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,254 Points:229,610 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 8:03:07 AM	Ignore weenerdog Report Abuse
	There are lots of subsidies and other kinds of money in food. How do you expect politicians and their lobbyists to get rich making fuel from anything else? I can see it now; a garbage, lawn, and weed tax.
mwhals Champion Author Charleston Posts:4,409 Points:747,715 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:59:14 AM	Ignore mwhals Report Abuse
	Leave the food alone!
AlaRedNeck All-Star Author Kansas Posts:786 Points:136,750 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:58:39 AM	Ignore AlaRedNeck Report Abuse
	I agree totally with what I am reading from several people this morning, vote the present group of politicians out of office as soon as they come up for reelection. When we start exersizing our power in the voting booth they will finally start to pay attention to what real people are going through. With their fat salaries, expense accounts and kickbacks the people in Washington have forgotten what it's like in the real world. If we all get off our butts and vote we won't have to settle for anymore Bushes, or whatever candidate the religious right deems fit to stick us with.
techque Veteran Author St. Louis Posts:315 Points:889,905 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:55:55 AM	Ignore techque Report Abuse
	maybe our current gasoline prices have been secretly manipulated up to make the PTB's (Powers That Be) investments in ethanol production profitable. It is definitely a looser with $2US/gallon gasoline.
fastfreddy38 All-Star Author Ontario Posts:555 Points:840,040 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:55:50 AM	Ignore fastfreddy38 Report Abuse
	Some sugar beets are grown in Manitoba.
sandtb Veteran Author Chicago Posts:405 Points:88,985 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:54:44 AM	Ignore sandtb Report Abuse
	Where do they grow sugar beets?
tags610 Champion Author Lincoln Posts:1,974 Points:446,900 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:53:26 AM	Ignore tags610 Report Abuse
	Drill
lpj Champion Author Georgia Posts:3,615 Points:807,440 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:51:37 AM	Ignore lpj Report Abuse
	ethanol can be made from sugar beets instead of corn !!
Netscaper113 Champion Author New York City Posts:5,233 Points:1,023,050 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:51:07 AM	Ignore Netscaper113 Report Abuse
	figures...
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:1,719 Points:324,585 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:50:14 AM	Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse
	Matts_Pap ... I agree that all incumbents should be VOTED OUT of office.
Arktander Veteran Author Illinois Posts:469 Points:287,865 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:47:43 AM	Ignore Arktander Report Abuse
	They knew this before they legislated it.
REVLAW Champion Author San Antonio Posts:1,719 Points:324,585 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:45:48 AM	Ignore REVLAW Report Abuse
	Too early for "new news."
Matts_Pap All-Star Author Pennsylvania Posts:912 Points:141,570 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:45:28 AM	Ignore Matts_Pap Report Abuse
	Ethanol as a renewable fuel for cars and trucks is a waste of money, sadly it is "our money". Our politicians waste money without blinking an eye. When prices for everything increase they have their automatic pay increases and unbelievable benefits to soften the blow. Voting them out is our only recourse.
Stateline Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,019 Points:607,505 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:44:34 AM	Ignore Stateline Report Abuse
	opinion od the Vancouver Sun, nothing more
yelobus All-Star Author Houston Posts:517 Points:490,475 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:40:36 AM	Ignore yelobus Report Abuse
	Is ethanol a waste? Ask the Brazilians.
peakoil2010 All-Star Author Los Angeles Posts:739 Points:147,875 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 7/5/2008 7:39:23 AM	Ignore peakoil2010 Report Abuse
	not a good alternative